In this podcast Interview Lee Rowley (, copywriter, discusses how you can get clarity on growing your business by focusing on what it takes to generate good sales copy.

Lee makes some excellent points as to do’s and don’t’s when it comes to copywriting:

  • If stressed, a good copywriter can help you find a path back to simplicity.
  • The writing is only 10% of what copywriting is about. It’s mastery of the 90% below the waterline that is critical. It is much more than “deja moo,” where one has seen this bull (use of standard templates) before. Humans are complex and good copywriters help business owners need to find the thread running through their business prospective clients can identify with. It’s the intersection of why you are ready to help with the client’s readiness to change.
  • Being genuine and client-focused rather than seeing prospects as sources of income is critical for good copywriting.
  • You have 2-3 seconds to grab the readers attention and the message needs to be relatively short since people don’t spend as much time reading as in the past.
  • Marketing for the sale is vastly different than marketing for the ego of the seller (“Look at me! This is how I got my Rolex!”). It’s all about solving the customer’s problem.
  • When it comes to copywriting, the shorter the better. One trick Lee has learned is to sit down and read the copy out loud. This will help find the ideal length.
  • Lee works to empower his tribe rather than trying to be everything to everyone.
  • When selecting a copywriter have a face-to-face conversation to see if the person is engaged and excited about your product and views you as unique if you want the copy to be an effective sales tool.
  • Clients do best when they unlearn what they know about marketing since a lot of it can be formula-based.
  • To get it right, the copywriter needs to spend time at the beginning (that 90% below the waterline). It gets to the core, the “why,” the copywriter’s client is working from.
  • In the listening process Lee also does Avatar Emersion where he observes the client working with their client’s to get as rich a sense as possible of what the client really needs in terms of copy. He can do this by going to Facebook groups his client’s client attends to get insights into what people want. Also, he read Amazon reviews of books his client’s prospects are interested in.
  • Lee finds that the more one listens to the client the easier the writing part becomes.
  • In the initial conversation with prospective clients he asks them to talk about the crossroads where they have arrived.
  • He then moves into the “immersion part” which is where the work is done, behind the curtain, so to speak. He looks at where they are compared to where they want to be. This gets into determining the ideal audience which leads to checking out various forums and groups. From that the appropriate avatar is created. For example, having arthritis and not being able to play with grandchildren.
  • Listening in the various groups Lee picks up life-style issues that need addressed but aren’t necessarily talked about directly. This information leads to great copy.
  • The interview closes out with Lee talking about the importance of treating well those who support you and can provide good information that gets to the heart of the client’s problem. Also, remember the good copy is a tool, a tool that exists in a marketing environment the components of which, e.g., social media need to be addressed as well.
  • It all gets down to working both smart and hard and knowing when to stay and when to walk away.

You can get ahold of Lee at (,

If you need help in gaining clarity when dealing with complex situations, you can download CMC’s free e-book  MINDSET – 5 SIMPLE WAYS TO LOOK AT COMPLEX PROBLEMS and learn how to find a simple vantage point from which you can resolve challenges.

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